By karrybird
#11440
Omerta wrote:Holy hell this has gotten way out of hand. Let's try to dial it back a bit. Everybody is going to have different perspectives, especially when it comes to art. Let's not forget we are making models out of cubes. We are going to have to assume a bit of artistic liberty when it comes to these models for that very reason.

You pick a starting point, a reference, and then interpret it through your own style. Mundus chose one that he likes, and honestly when you look at the model in reference to that sprite, he did an amazing job. The model does look like a monster. He gets the freedom to decide how and what to model. Whether or not it gets accepted into the game is a decision left to the community at large.

Criticism is meant to help the artist in creating a more polished version of their original vision. I don't think that telling someone to remake their entire model necessarily qualifies as criticism, especially since you are essentially telling them to create it how you would, and in that case you're better off just making your own rather than mincing words. The community will then decide which is better.

Mundus, I think you've done an incredible job with building an accurate representation of that sprite. That being said, I agree with SPG and Karry in that this isn't my personal preference for Mewtwo. But again, that's a question of taste, not criticism. It really is a great model. I can tell you have put a LOT of effort into it, and it shows. Good job.

We don't have any rules in place that tell people how they should model, and that's a good thing. We shouldn't be restricting artists. There is nowhere that I can find that says we are only allowed to model based on a specific generation of sprites, official artwork, etc. So just let him do his thing and let the community decide what goes into the game.

well said dude, but i never told him to start from scratch, i just asked to fix what needed to be fixed.

like i said earlier, the model is very good in terms of the old sprite being referenced, albeit some things could be tweaked to make it better.

also, mundus, i never said i was an expert at criticism, but i at least know what it is. maybe spg was a little harsh, but he was right for the most part. the things he listed should be reworked a bit or at least be considered...
By Mundus
#11441 I will rework those things that do not turn it into a Gen 5 Mewtwo.
By karrybird
#11443
Mundus wrote:I will rework those things that do not turn it into a Gen 5 Mewtwo.

alright, fair enough.
By Omerta
#11448 SPG can sound harsh sometimes, but he rarely means to. And usually his criticisms are spot on, so they can help a lot.

Alright, so now back to the topic at hand. One thing I can suggest that should be an easy and effective fix is to use rotated blocks to eliminate the staircase effect in some places, mainly the face. For example, instead of those four blocks you use to slope (staircase) down to the nose, use one slanted block to give it a cleaner look. Karry is excellent with this, and I suggest taking a look at some of her models, like Sandshrew, that use this technique very effectively.
By Mundus
#11464 Thanks for the advice. I do have a question about it that you may be able to help me figure out. I notice that Nick's Charizard model that his tail is super smooth and nice. How would I do that since Mewtwo's tail curves in an "S" fashion. That is the most glaring issue to me with the model. The tail looks very busy and disoriented. Also, in regards to the face, particularly the nose/mouth portions, how do I rotate smoothly and still get it to form a rounded point? The staircase seemed to be the only way to get the slant and the "roundness" of adjusted width. Thank you in advance :D
User avatar
By MrMasochism
#11465 Wow, I really missed quite the argument there. For what it's worth mundus I agree with you. I prefer the idea of mewtwo being more distorted, less of a glamour pokemon and more of a monster.
By Omerta
#11470
Mundus wrote:Thanks for the advice. I do have a question about it that you may be able to help me figure out. I notice that Nick's Charizard model that his tail is super smooth and nice. How would I do that since Mewtwo's tail curves in an "S" fashion. That is the most glaring issue to me with the model. The tail looks very busy and disoriented. Also, in regards to the face, particularly the nose/mouth portions, how do I rotate smoothly and still get it to form a rounded point? The staircase seemed to be the only way to get the slant and the "roundness" of adjusted width. Thank you in advance :D


Hmm...well looking at Nick's Charizard, the reason the tail looks smoother than your Mewtwo seems to be due to the fact that the top of every segment of the tail lines up with the adjacent ones. Tails are tough, because you pretty much have to use a staircase effect, but I think if you make the topsides of every segment of the tail line up (like Nick did) then it will look a lot smoother.

Now, for the face, if you use a rotated block for the top of the nose area, think of it like the top face of that rotated block will be touching each corner of that staircase you have right now. Then, to still get a rounded effect, you would use a block that isn't rotated (or, to be more precise, is oriented at exactly the same angle as the current nose blocks are), then line up the top front corner of that block with the top front corner of the angled block. I can't really tell if it will work with your model without seeing it, but it might be good to at least try it.
By Mundus
#11471 Okay, I will definitely give the face a shot soonly. I was just wondering because it would seem like I'd have to rotate like 8 rows of blocks (top, bottom, left, right, and in between those)if not more to to get that amorphous soft edged cone look. I could definitely smooth out the top, bottom, and front or the left, right, and front, but I'd have to staircase the non smoothed adjacent side, if that makes any sense.



Or I could also smooth each wider block, leaving the staircasing viewable from the top/down or bottom up angle, and even then it only be along the x-axis.
By Omerta
#11473
Mundus wrote:Okay, I will definitely give the face a shot soonly. I was just wondering because it would seem like I'd have to rotate like 8 rows of blocks (top, bottom, left, right, and in between those)if not more to to get that amorphous soft edged cone look. I could definitely smooth out the top, bottom, and front or the left, right, and front, but I'd have to staircase the non smoothed adjacent side, if that makes any sense.

Well, the way I'm suggesting is the simpler route. It's basically not worrying about rounding the sides and instead just using a slope for the topside to give an abstraction of a rounder face. It looks very clean when it's done right, but if you wanted something more complete/complex then there are other methods that I typically use, but again they are much more complicated methods that become pretty tedious and are difficult for some people to grasp. I have no doubt you could do it, but it's a lot more time invested. If you decide you want to try that route then let me know and I'll show you how I would do it.
By Mundus
#11474 Alright, that sounds really good. I'll let you know. Thanks again for the constructive feedback.
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