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By Kuwoobie
#71448 Lately we've had a couple of players withdraw their payments to our two servers. The reason given is unknown, but we assume they are kids who used their parents credit cards without permission, as PayPal tells us the payments were "unauthorized."

Trouble is, the payments were made weeks ago, and we are now negative in our account because of it. They also received everything they paid for, yet were able to get PayPal to charge back every dollar. Between the two of them, over the past week, we have lost $170 USD, and from the look of things, we cannot fight PayPal for it.

Currently we are looking for a way to prevent this from happening, or to fight it when it does. It seems incredibly unfair that people are able to make payments online, get what they want, then take back their money. Surely there is some system in place to prevent people from doing this?
User avatar
By Kuwoobie
#71456 We've already talked to PayPal. They said because we sell "virtual goods" the buyer is allowed to chargeback 100% of the time no questions asked. This basically means anyone who buys ranks or something like that on a server can take the money back a year later if they want to, and PayPal will let them.
User avatar
By Trigore
#71460
Kuwoobie wrote:We've already talked to PayPal. They said because we sell "virtual goods" the buyer is allowed to chargeback 100% of the time no questions asked. This basically means anyone who buys ranks or something like that on a server can take the money back a year later if they want to, and PayPal will let them.

Interesting after further research I believe you should have people donate to a alternative from Paypal. And transfer it to Paypal for server cost. You can also have it go directly to your bank account if you can set that up.
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By Kuwoobie
#71497 They are banned, but that doesn't stop them from going to every other server and doing the same thing. Can you imagine if say, they donated $1000 to Pixelmon when the whole benefit thing comes out, then a year later decided to charge it back?
By Rarity
#71866 I deal with donations for an entirely different reason. Chargebacks with Paypal are very simple and straightforward.

  • Paypal will always side with the person issuing the Chargeback if Paypal is unable to contact the merchant. (Only if the person checked out with PayPal)
  • If Paypal was issued the chargeback via the credit card company of the user, then you will have to deal with the credit card company that issued the chargeback. Not paypal.
  • If the chargeback was done with Paypal, Paypal will *always* contact you via the E-mail address registered on your account. If you are a business account, you have protections which help deal with chargebacks. Paypal will contact you, asking you to provide proof via logs, pictures, etc, that you provided the item and that the person received the item.
  • There is a large grace period for which to reply to an E-mail generated by a Chargeback, but I advise not taking very long. There is a long period at which PayPal will attempt to obtain information from the buyer and when they issue the refund. This period is sufficiently long that you should have plenty of time to provide details. This is not possible if the user used their bank or their credit card company.
  • Make sure to document sales of digital goods. Keep logs of any items or ranks given to players. Players given items, etc, should have logs recorded of the actions which provide proof in the event that a Chargeback is filled.
  • If you do not have a business account, make one. It's free. Inexcusable to have Paypal be a personal account for a server operator.
  • Never spend what you don't have. Always have money put aside for paying for the server. Since you're down $170, it would appear you have been using money for personal reasons. If the amount of money that these 2 donated was all you received that month, consider revisiting what you did wrong and why you are not receiving ample donations. If you can't afford to pay for your server, and donations are not sufficient, you should consider alternatives.
  • Paypal *will not* refund goods or services that are "Infinite". There is a refund period for items, to protect sellers. Especially business accounts.
As someone who deals in similar businesses, it is absolutely inexcusable to not have enough money set aside for this very reason. ESPECIALLY when you're dealing with games that are mostly played by kids. There's a very good reason that MMORPGs no longer accept credit cards, because they are usually stolen or given chargebacks.

It would also appear you are using some of this money for personal reasons, or reasons outside of the server operating costs. This is also inexcusable. If running a server is your business, maintaining your business and always staying in the green is priority #1.

In the case you are not using money personally, then you need to be more aware of what you are receiving. Since it would appear that 2 people managed to rack up $170, it seems you are charging a crap ton of money for what I consider, useless goods and services. You should consider changing your plans to encourage people to buy smaller, cheaper items rather than large items that they may later regret. Minecraft is especially easy to feel "Regret" for because it is a game of very limited enjoyment over a long period of time.

Someone is very likely to regret a $90 purchase, but often ignore a $10 purchase. Keep that in mind.

Good luck.
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