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By ChaoticIntake
#22092 Xwaffle: I say it's ready for approval post a polL!
SPG: no it isnt
lugiaisbeast101: Please explain why? There's flaws to it but I'd say it's good for approval.
SPG: There's flaws to it you answered your own question


This came from the Model Feedback subforum, in Machoke's thread. I couldn't quote it properly because I'm only allowed to embed 3 quotes within each other.

I have a problem with things like this. I see them happening all over the site by a few of the moderators, and I can't imagine that I'm the only one irritated by these happenings.

My problem is this: A few of the moderators seem to always attempt to project this huge negativity, and I would almost call it condescension, on people when they're discussing a model. I really only see it happen in the Model Feedback and Trainer subforums, but then again those are the subforums I frequent the most.

If you read earlier in the thread, you'll see that SPG mentions that the dog ears are bothering him, and so the OP says that he sees them too, and he'll fix them. Now, there were a few more comments made from random people about how good the model is, and then the quoted posts came into play.

Now, I understand that it may not be normal users' place to say things like "this looks good for approval, post a poll", but certainly there must be a better way to deal with people like this than being an outright douche about it. ESPECIALLY considering that lugiaisbeast101 asked for an explanation, and all he got was smartassery and negativity in response.

This is exactly how Skibb was treating Karrybird in the Snivy thread, which I why I was so vocal about it. Moderators that act like they're top of the food chain and everyone else should kiss their feet make the experience on the forum bad for everyone, because with enough of the negativity from your moderators, people will become less and less motivated to post and contribute. It also doesn't help foster a positive relationship with the community.

To me, it seems like every time the moderators post something negative in a model's thread, they're suggesting that it is the sole things that THEY dislike that are keeping the model from being good to go. Which is fine, of course, if that's the same thing everyone else is saying. Maybe it's just me feeling the vibe, but I get the sense that unless Skibb or SPG deems the model absolutely 100% perfect, the model has no way of getting in the mod, even if everyone else loves it. Which, in my opinion, is total crap. As far as I was aware, this forum was a place for everyone to come together and enjoy creations and give constructive feedback on them, not a place where two moderators (that aren't even the moderators of the Model Feedback subforum) place themselves above everyone else on the totem pole. I get that there need to be certain positions of power within this place, because the community is pretty big and there are trolls all over the Internet, but at the end of the day, I don't believe it's okay that they get to tell people that a model isn't okay because of something that they specifically don't like.

I just wanted to bring this to everyone's attention because it's one of the big reasons I don't try to contribute anything. It's not worth me working hard to learn how to use a program, make something with the program, then watch as my submission isn't approved because the moderators aren't satisfied with my submission, or some other ham-headed reasoning that they come up with.

I hope everyone understands what I mean by all of this, and I look forward to your discussion.
User avatar
By SPG
#22095
ChaoticIntake wrote:(that aren't even the moderators of the Model Feedback subforum)

actually, i am, im also the modelling group leader, but that is besides the point, and i only stop models from approval if its a simple fix that will improve it a lot, or more vissually appealing, if it requires little effort, then i have no problem holding it back, but if it is redoing the entire thing (aka snivy) its not worth it, i'll mention it to throw it up in the air, but if they dont want to, i still say something that they can do so it will look better. and i may be negative, but its mainly because im EXTREMELY blunt about what i say, so it comes out more douchy then what i really mean to say. and I dont put myself above others, that machoke thread could be used as an example, but this is where i would like to disagree, he said he would fix it it, it also bugs him, its a simple fix, its why i put my opinion over the others because he is already fixing that tiny problem that will improve the model, so it was justified, you may disagree with me, that is ok, but its why i did it. as for skibb, im not entirely sure, so im not going to speak for him, but from what i noticed, he isnt filled in half the time so he isnt sure what to do and makes mistakes, he is only human
By ChaoticIntake
#22127
SPG wrote:i'll mention it to throw it up in the air


One of the points of the post was to highlight the fact that you don't just mention things to "throw them up in the air".

From the Kingdra thread:

SPG wrote:
Jack_Attack12 wrote:I love it! the tail is a bit weird. But karry, i dont know why everyones making a fuss about it, its not that bad. :) Good job karry!

jack, its that bad


This is the kind of stuff I'm talking about. There was no attempt at diplomacy here, you just shut down the person leaving the positive comment by leaving a negative one of your own. There was no explanation, no attempt was made to try and make the user see your point of view, you just basically said "no, you're wrong and I'm right", and continued on with your day. You made the comment about the tail being incorrect, which is fine, but then you proceeded to harp on the tail repeatedly through your comments to other people encouraging the model. So, you may START by just throwing a comment up in the air, but the fact that you say these things after you've already made your point makes it look like you have the only correct opinion. I mean, why else would you consistently reference YOUR issues with the content when someone has something positive to say?


and i may be negative, but its mainly because im EXTREMELY blunt about what i say, so it comes out more douchy then what i really mean to say.


I personally see a problem with this. If you realize how you sound, and you know that you sound like a douche, why don't you make any attempt to change it? In the real world, a customer service or retail job won't let you get away with this stuff. If you're being a dick to customers, and you know you are, you won't last very long at the company, because if you notice it, I guarantee others do as well. Maybe you don't realize this, but in moderating a community, or holding a customer-based job, it sometimes requires a gentler approach, because humans are fickle creatures sometimes.

Besides that, all you do by being "blunt", or whatever you want to call it, is make yourself look bad. It's fine to think "I'm going to say what I really think, and not sugarcoat it", but there's a difference between being blunt that way, and being blunt your way, and it largely has to do with the fact that in being blunt, you can still offer constructive criticism, and I hardly ever see you doing that.
By JurroRath
#22131 I'm just going to say right now that I agree with Chaotic. I'm absolutely tired of the generally negative atmosphere that is being brought out by the other mods. I haven't been a big help myself, considering I haven't been around much lately, but it still irks me to come on and check the forums first thing in the morning just to see several people arguing over something, generally with one of the other mods. One of the big issues is that most of the mods consider themselves above the other members of the forums and are more than willing to use their rank to force people to do as they say.

..if it requires little effort, then i have no problem holding it back, but if..


Sorry to break it to you hun, but that doesn't help your case. That still makes you seem like an arrogant douche, because it's still just you who's holding the model back, everyone else thinks it's fine.

And on the subject of you being blunt, I could've sworn I talked to you about this before. More than once even. Hell, I think anyone who's hung around long enough has. It's a serious problem because, believe it or not, you are in fact scaring away new potential modellers/coders/musicians/whatever. If I had just found this mod recently and only just made an account on the forums and started poking around, I'd go 'ick, that guy's a moderator? Fuck this, I'm going somewhere else' just from poking around in Model Feedback alone. And I'm fairly sure I'm not the only person who'd have this reaction.

I've stated this before, back while I was still in the Skype chat- actually, I think I snapped at you guys about this a couple days before leaving- but as far as I'm concerned, moderator's are supposed to set an example for the community. People look up to you as a guide and as someone trustable. Your attitude thus far, has worn my trust thin personally. And especially after the fact that I defended your bad attitude back on the old forums when you first joined. Yet you've done nothing but prove the people who were against you sticking around right time and again. How is someone like that supposed to be a dependable pillar of our community?
By Skibb
#22185 Hum, yea sorry Chaotic, I worded that on Karrys thread a bit wrong, and I'm sorry for that. But in all honesty, I never see me behaving like a "Animal on top of the food chain" or however you call it. If I did it before, then please quote it here ;)
User avatar
By MrMasochism
#22256 All this is very interesting but spg was right that the tail was bad. I don't have time to be personally critiquing models in the model feedback thread so I tend to rely on others to do it for me but if that seadra had come to approval looking like that I'd have sent it back so we do need to make sure that the negative comments are heard. Part of the issue is also the number of people trying to boost the number of posts in their account by just going to model feedback and typing "this model looks great". It gets rather irritating partly because it's so transparent
User avatar
By Jack_Attack12
#22266 I have to agree with the above, i was going to say something to spg about the Seadra incident but i feel like if i do i would get shouted at or threatened by a warning!

A couple of days ago i was looking at my gen 6 review topic on the off topic sub forum. So i seen someone had posted a comment, i replied with a rumor i heard and then a couple of hours later Spg replied saying i should just warn people who say BS rumors... as i have stated up above i would have said something back, but... i feel threatened...

And for what jurro has said when i joined pixelmon i did not make an account straight away... i looked around the forums and just read the comments and thinking about it, i did feel a bit "scared" to make an account and comment on the model feed back encase SPG (and other people) would scald me with the back hand... And again SPG is just blunt but if he cant put a bit of thought into what he types he will get complaints like this again! But.... What spg says is right, there was a few minor issues with machoke, but just that blunt answer made it 10x worse. If he said it as in " Its a great model and i love it! there is something he can change before putting a poll up...."
Though i do think spg is one of the best mods on the forum, he could be a bit nicer on what he posts and how he says stuff.
User avatar
By SPG
#22335
Jack_Attack12 wrote: Spg replied saying i should just warn people who say BS rumors... .

not goign to lie, i thought it was clear i was kidding, guess not, so sorry about that, anyways, i'll do a full on responce (editing this one) later in the day i just felt i needed to say that really quick
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By Rados
#22359 Sorry Skibb and SPG, but I'll have to agree with the guy here, there were some really rude and unhelpful comments in that forum, that really makes the Modeler feel un-motivated and as we can see, lots give up completely from modeling and pixelmon. But, yeah, there are some people that post "great job" and similiars, that has the same effect on the modelers since it doesn't help them at all
By JurroRath
#22367 'Great job' posts are only really useful to stroke a modellers ego, that's about it. They really should just be done away with. If someone asks the modeller to fix something and the person who asked for that fix thinks they've done a good job fixing it, then I wouldn't mind see 'great job, can't see anymore problems :3', but just a random person posting 'good job'? Needs to be done with. It provides no productive value and just serves at little more than spam.
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