By Cencor
#180576 Hi there! So after visiting several Pixelmon servers, I noticed there’s an inevitable situation server operators aren’t prepared for: Max IV Pokémon flooding the server. Since IV breeding is relatively quick and easy past the initial stage of the breeding process, (with Max IV dittos or through just continuous breeding), many players would sell these Pokes for cheap to another player, who in turn would repeat the breeding process again to sell to another, eventually flooding the server with Maxed IV and hidden ability Pokémon. Although flooding is inevitable on such things, the current breeding process is easily exploitable and could spell out a much shorter life cycle for servers overall.

Flooding pushes away a significant segment of new players, specifically the ones who may not be into the idea of competitive gameplay. This will prevent them from also experiencing Pixelmon to the fullest – Why catch random IV Pokémon in the wild when you could buy Maxed out ones for $1pc per Poke (exaggeration, but you get the idea)? At the end of the day, it reduces the number of things for players to strive for/do.
As breeding is an integral part of the Pixelmon experience, rather than removing it entirely, I think adding a server config for setting the number IVs passed on through would be beneficial. Rather than having the default 3 IVs passed on, a config could be set so 2,1 or even 0 IVs are passed on instead.

setPassedIVs= [0,1,2,3,4,5,6]
If value = X, then X IVs are pass on from parents.

To provide more flexibility for server operators, I think a config for these options could help as well:
- Enabling/Disabling IV breeding items. This includes destiny knot and power items. setIVItems = true/false

- Remove higher chance of Female parent passing on ability. setFemaleAbilityChance= true/false

After asking around for help on Discord, Rasbot suggested an alternative solution that I believe is just as effective, if not better – A config for enabling/disabling IVs to be only passed on by power items.

“setBreedingIVRandom = true/false
If true, then bred Pokemon’s IVs are randomized unless power items are used
if false, then bred Pokemon would use the 3 IVs taken from parents”

Thank you for your hard work, and sorry for the long post!

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By CritsAreFair
#180710
MrMasochism wrote:Those are fair points. We'll consider it


No, I'm sorry, but they're not. You've already made breeding competitively viable pokemon a disgustingly boring chore by implementing a breeding system that takes hours to breed and hatch eggs that would take less than 10 minutes to hatch in-game. Implementing something like this would be a death blow to an important and vibrant part of your community. Like it or not, competitive play is integral to the health of any game.

New players are never going to be on equal footing as more experienced veterans. Even if you reversed this standing and gave flawless competitively viable Pokemon to the newbies and random trashmons to the veterans, they STILL hold a significant advantage simply because they understand game mechanics better than new players. You want to know how to even the playing field a little? Try tutoring some new players in competitive battling, instead of asking that everyone else be dumbed down in a futile effort to make things "fair". And if you're not into competitive battling, then why on earth would you care if other people have competitively viable Pokemon? That's like saying "well, I don't play baseball, but I honestly think baseball bats should be replaced with matchsticks".

Furthermore, we're deviating more and more from actual game mechanics. I did not support the idea of ranch blocks when they were first floated and it annoys me to no end that that was how you chose to implement breeding instead of sticking to something more faithful to the proven mechanics used in-game.

It wouldn't be the end of the world if it was a config option (competitive players can simply steer clear of servers silly enough to disable IV breeding), but anything more would be a serious blow to the competitive community, and for no good reason either.
User avatar
By Some Body
#180714 This leads to a very slippery slope of changing core mechanics of Pokémon. Not everything is configurable for a reason.

If you can't handle the pursuit of competitively viable Pokémon, then you shouldn't be on these kinds of servers.
User avatar
By Rasgnarok
#180802 As the person mentioned in the original post, I do believe Cencor makes a good case as to why introducing a config setting for this would be useful - having myself experienced such disadvantage when established players abuse the breeding mechanics and mass produce perfect pokémon. Once you have one pokémon with perfect IVs, then it becomes a breeze to breed others. Which is pretty much game-breaking if you consider that breeding perfect IVs should always be a challenge. These pokémons are valuable for a reason - competitively.

There is a reason why it is now oh so easy to obtain said pokémon, and what OP is trying to say here, is that if we can make it so servers opt out of this spiralling iv economy, then those servers would definitely be grateful for this. If this is physically possible in the code, then it's wonderful. If not, then it's not a deal-breaker.

@CritsAreFair, no one is saying that you must use this configuration. And at the end of the day, if you don't want changes implemented because they deviate from the original game, might I remind that this is Pixelmon and not Pokémon, as such, we have proven to often deviate to better accommodate for the different environment the game evolves in. Namely, ranch blocks.

Lastly, as a competitive battler, I don't see the issue in having this added - if you enjoy mass-breeding perfect IV pokémon, then go for a server that has this config disabled. In the same way, if you don't like the mass-breeding, then go for a server that has it enabled.

To each their own I say.
By Cencor
#181313 Hi again! Anyways, just popping in to clarify my stance and point out a few things.

@CritsAreFair While it may take hours to breed and hatch the perfect Pokemon, Pixelmon has configs in place to alleviate that ‘disgustingly boring chore’. Destiny Knots made of red dye and string? Ditto to Dittos breeding that can pass on IVs? Ranches that don’t need environment blocks? There’s even configs to reduce number of steps for hatching, and stages passed for breeding. I can’t see how Pixelmon hasn't been more accommodating than necessary with updates (cheapening the experience if I can say so myself), but heck, I'm not here to dictate how you want to play the game.

My reason for these configs is not to create a sense of fairness or understanding between casual and competitive players. It is economical - to prevent servers from speeding through their life cycle. With how mass IV-breeding is set up, once they flood a server past the tipping point, you'll eventually find players who feel they've experienced all that Pixelmon has to offer, thus leaving. Flooding also intimidates new players from joining, as they'll be given the impression that the server is 'old', or filled with 'pros'. Economy plummets, and operating what used to be a popular server as it is suddenly becomes financially unfeasible in the long run. Either way, you can be sure server operators will close or reset the server to gather back appeal with new players, be they casual or competitive. Everyone involved loses something. It’s inevitable sure, but by having a config to limit IVs (from IV items or just from plain old breeding), any progress towards flooding the server can be slowed down, extending its shelf life further.

Oh, I do competitively battle on Pixelmon. I also spent a good year or so IV/HA breeding Pokémon for others on multiple servers. If I had not been part of either activity, I would never have thought of the repercussions of max IV breeding in the first place. Sadly, I think I realized this far too late.

Looking back, I regret pushing for max IV breeding. This left almost no middle ground for competitive play on the servers I've been on; you either had maxed IVs to be in a competition or you don't bother at all. There was no gradual shift from simple to more competitive battling. Not sure what your experiences are like with Pixelmon servers, but frankly, I feel it's a darn shame players missed out on an organic experience like that. Not to mention it would've at least delayed the flooding inevitability just a little longer.

As for having settings for no IVs being passed on, personally I'm unsure if it will promote competitiveness, but results from Pokemon Revolution Online suggests otherwise. Then again, it's nowhere near the same as Minecraft/Pixelmon.

@Some Body I understand. I can only hope for the best.

It's not the pursuit itself I can't handle, but how easy it is to claim the goal. What’s a few hours or even days of breeding compared to extending several months or years of your server being operational?

@Rasgnarok Hey there again! Thanks again for clearing up my intentions!
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